Anonym Fuck

Link spam

ItalianVisits.com, is just link spam, a single unfinished page with 3 small uncaptioned photos and 4 links, the purpose of which is to draw people to "I.V. Tours".

The person who added ItalianVisits has systematically gone thru the 20 regions on Wikipedia to add that site to each, without any regard for improving Wikipedia, no attempt even at adding the official site for the various regions. This is therefore a link spam campaign, and should probably be considered vandalism. I've warned that user, and if need be (there have already been some reverts for other regional pages) will put them on the Vandalism in Progress page. If you have this page on your watchlist, please help in maintaining the quality of the links! Bill 12:49, 21 July 2005 (UTC)

Rebuttal to Bill Thayer

Bill, I am the "someone" who added links to ItalianVisits.com on the various Italian Regional sites - and I don't think I was commiting "link spam" or engaged in vandalism when I did so. ItalianVisits.com is a serious endeavour being undertaken by my daughter, Jesse Andrews, who for the past 2 years has been living in Praia A Mare, in the northwest region of Calabria. My other daughter, Arianna, is attending university at the University for Foreigners in Perugia, and also contributes to the ItalianVisits website when she can.

If you look at the section on Calabria, you will see how much work and effort has been put into cataloguing towns and villages that are virtually unknown to English-speaking people, whether they are travelers or tourists, or people who have a curiousity about the area. You will note, I hope, the abundance of wonderful photographs that compliment the text, and present our viewers with images that otherwise would not be available. Incidentally, you should also note the link to Wikipedia resources whereever and whenever there is material on Wikidpedia about a region, town or other locale. We are as committed to Wikipedia as you are.

Jesse has created a vessel into which more information is being added every day. I just spent 15 days in Umbria, for instance, and added pages for Perugia, Assisi, Spello, Bevagna, Gubbio and the Regional Park at Colfiorito. Other contributors, like Katherine Lavallee, have added information about other towns in Tuscany. Such contributions are solicited eagerly so that we can fatten the content on the site.

ItalianVisits.com is hardly a come-on for selling tour packages, although we are trying to attract people to "unknown" parts of Italy, and in so doing, get some business to those out of the way places for local restauranteurs, hoteliers, and others in the travel business. If you are aware of what is going on in Italy now, you will understand that the economy is depressed, owing largely to various difficulties it has and is facing as it tries to integrate with the EU, and as it attempts to compete in a global economy. So, having information for travelers can not be the sine qua non of "link spam". If you look at all the external links listed in the Umbria section of Wikipedia, a number of them are active promoters of travel to the Region. Even in the various regional sections of Italy where you posted identical comments to the comments you made here there are links to sites that promote and facilitate travel. Should all of these be removed? And if so, by whom and under what (hopefully) well-defined policy?

You can coin or use phrases like "link spam", and "cyber vandalism", or other terms of denigration, but I think you, and others who "worry" about Wikipedia, should be careful not to sit on Wikipedia with a holier than thou attitude, deleting other people's contributions, unless a more thorough investigation is done into the content, and sometimes into the motives and objectives of their creators. Many people spend a lot of time, money and energy trying to do good without much reward beyond the satisfactions it provides. This effort to "do good" is manifest on your site Bill, at least, so far as I can see, and I commend you for it.

I'm a bit more than a little chagrined about what you have done Bill, and about how you have characterized ItalianVisits, but I hope we can discuss this if you think I am making an untenable argument in favour of allowing us to post links to the IV website, without fear of having them removed by the over-zealous.

Regards Vian Andrews Vancouver, BC July 28, 2005


Two new links (well - three)

I suppose that adding the same external link to all entries for Italy could have been misinterpreted as spam... I think two new links to the local tourism boards could help... For Trentino www.trentino.to

For South Tyrol/Alto adige two other links (one with the name of the region in Italian, the other in German) They point to the same site, but it is a way not to trigger other discussions www.suedtirol.comwww.alto-adige.com --Adriano 22:21, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Trentino-Alto Adige moved to Trentino-South Tyrol

The rename of Trentino-Alto Adige to Trentino-South Tyrol has ever been discussed before?

The usage of "South Tyrol" is extremely limited in Italy and mainly by the autonomist parties of the region.

Alto Adige is commonly used by other international references, like

http://dmoz.org/Regional/Europe/Italy/Regions/Trentino-Alto_Adige/

Pietro 13:36, 4 November 2005 (UTC)

Will South Tyrol keep it's name? Will the articles Austria, Vienna and Tyrol be renamed to "Österreich", "Wien" and "Tirol" (with "i")? ;-) --Roland2 00:51, 7 November 2005 (UTC)

I suppose that nobody who visits South Tyrol will search the Internet via Alto Adige . Because South Tyrol keeps it's common English name in Wikipedia, also the Double province Trentino-South Tyrol should do.
Additional to the above mentioned arguments, a short look to the official Civic Network's homepage (www.provincia.bz.it) is useful: official english homepage of the province, called South Tyrol . And also the english region name is Region Trentino - South Tyrol. --Geof 22:40, 8 November 2005 (UTC)

Requested move ("Trentino-South Tyrol" => "Trentino-Alto Adige")

The name "Trentino-South Tyrol" doesn't exists in italian administration. The name correct is "Trentino-Alto Adige". Süd-Tyrol is the old denomination of region before the 1919. Only the "Provincia autonoma di Bolzano" can be denominated "Süd-Tirol" because it is bilingual. --Ilario 09:10, 6 November 2005 (UTC)

  • Support --Ilario 09:11, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Support -- AnyFile 10:10, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Support -- GhePeU 10:56, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Support -- Pietro 11:35, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Support - we should use the official denominations, and eventually name the alternatives in the article text. Alfio 11:53, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Conditional Support - At least according to google (restricted to english language websites) "T-AA" gives more hits thant "T-St". Thus, that might indicate that "T-AA" is more commonly used in English. What do English native speakers think? Gugganij 12:36, 6 November 2005 (UTC) Changed vote: Oppose - "Trentino-South Tyrol" seems to be more prevelant than "Trentino-Alto Adige" (according to some English native speakers I asked). Gugganij 11:34, 9 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Support -- F. Cosoleto 12:58, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose The Italian provinces and regions are all named in English, see Tuscany, Sicily, and so forth. After all this is an english-language Wikipedia, not Italian. Gryffindor 16:15, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
    • Please, you consider Encyclopedia Britannica adopted names: Trentino, Veneto, Lazio, Latium, Sicily. --F. Cosoleto 17:26, 6 November 2005 (UTC).
  • Support ok, this is an english-language Wikipedia, but Trentino-South Tyrol is'nt English, it's esperanto! --Nick1915 17:14, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Support - Hellisp 18:09, 6 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose as WP article titles for the Regions of Italy are translated into English when translations are possible. Olessi 01:07, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose : When you can choose between the Italian, German or English name, I would prefer the English one. Otherwise you'd have to rename Tyrol to "Tirol" and East Tyrol to "Osttirol" and maybe find out how to pronounce it ;-) --Roland2 02:03, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Support Gac 06:01, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose . Martg76 08:37, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
  • I propose High Adige . Is it a good agreement? --147.162.44.28 12:02, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
  • Oppose . the english wikipedia usually uses english terms for article names. like Austria is listed as Austria and not Österreich which is the native name. translating alto adige into english doesn't make much sense (would be something like high mountain range ). the commonly used english term for alto adige hasn't been anything else than south tyrol . region names do not need to have the sa

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